Monkey Assassin REDUX Mystery Solved?--Not So Much

[Scotty]

EDIT: Not so sure as I was when I wrote this. But have fun reading. The mystery continues.

All right, so it might not have been much of a mystery for others, but it was for me. The issue involved trying to track down all the pieces from the Monkey vs Robot (MvsR) series. As much as I love my Hanna-Barbera Wobblers, the MvsR pieces run a very close second.

Question: What were the Monkey Assassin REDUX pieces and how could you tell them apart from the original Monkey Assassins?

From reading old posts, it seemed to be accepted that in 2004, 500 Monkey Assassins in the blue suit and 500 B&W Monkeys were pressed and released. Then, some time later 96 more of each (blue suit and B&W) were re-pressed and referred to as the Monkey Assassins Redux (Redux: "brought back, revived" -- I had to look it up). The problem was, no one knew how to tell the original from the Redux. And that was the original purpose of my journey. I didn't know it would lead me down a completely different, twisted, and bloodied path.

During my internet research, I happened on to a forum entry that was talking about the re-release of the Monkey Assassin Regular and Monochrome redux versions, but he had a quote in his post that appeared to come from Vinnie Fiorello (drummer from Less Than Jake, owner/operator of Paper+Plastick, and creative genius behind the MvsR line):

The re-releases were sold on the http://www.wunderlandwar.com site....
"...Only 96 of each of these will be sold. A blast from the past for sure and never to be repressed again, and when I say never again I mean never again. Originally, these were to be sold only for a convention but printing hold ups had me missing the deadline...again the original full color assassin and monochrome color way assassin, the twist is I'm hand customizing each one with blood splatters and packaging them in a tin lunchbox that I will hand screen a one color print on."

That quote completely changed what I was now trying to prove. Were the infamous Redux monkeys the ones used by Vinnie to make the Blood-Spattered Monkeys or was there a separate release of 96 pairs of monkeys out there somewhere? Was it a coincidence that the Redux version had 96 pieces and so did the Blood-Spattered Monkeys?

How to find out? Well, when in doubt, go right to the source, so I emailed a rep at Paper+Plastick and just asked. Sadly, he didn't know, but surprisingly, he replied to me and cc'd Vinnie. Cool!

Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 4:03 PM
Hi Scott, To be honest the Monkey vs. Robot toys were before my time at the label. I've CC'ed Vinnie on this email, who may very well be the only person in the entire world who would know the answer to this question haha. He's a pretty busy guy so give him a few days to respond to this one - thanks for your support of the label dude.

Much to my surprise, Vinnie wrote back pretty quickly.

Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 4:25 PM, v fiorello
Scott - In short Blood splattered packs were the repress of the original monkeys but hand customized and hand packed. Any other info you need hit me up - Vinnie

Yea, that didn't quite do it for me. I thought I understood what he was saying, but it was too ambiguous to report back to my fellow Funatics based on that response. So, like an annoying little kid sitting in the front row, I raised my hand and asked...

On Feb 8, 2013, at 7:09 PM, scotty3333
Vinnie, really appreciate the response. Sorry, but just need to clarify one thing. Was there more than one repress? Or there was only one repress of 96 and that's what you used for the blood spattered. Just want to make sure I get it straight. Thanks again. Scott.

He very quickly and quite pointedly replied:

On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 7:17 PM, v fiorello
Original press.
Only one repress and that became blood splatter.
Vincent Fiorello. Paper + Plastick. Wunderlandwar. Less Than Jake

So, in case it has somehow eluded you, when it comes to the blue suit and B&W Monkey Assassin, there are only 500 of these guys and they all came from the original 2004 press. The 96 pair that were re-pressed are now all covered in blood and crammed in a little silver tin. And the rest, my fellow Funatics, is Funko history

[PopCollector]

Wow, Scott! Though I have resisted collecting MVSR, I've seen and read enough about them on this forum that Funko history like this is interesting and entertaining to read. Thanks for sharing your research with us. WTG with your persistency and passion for Funko collecting!

[yellowrice]

Great info to know. Thanks for sharing Scotty!

[Carol_Lynn]

No surprise Vinnie got back to you so quickly, he's a great guy. Just a note, Wunderland War is the new name of Monkey vs Robot. There was a copyright issue so the name was changed, but most people in the funko world still call it MvsR.

[ShoMeNodder]

I don't have the blood spattered monkeys in any form...don't really like the bloody factor.

[HobieWanKenobi]

Awesome info. What about the Grey suited monkey with the brown head?

There's a picture on videguy's spreadsheet, but nobody seems to know what it is.

[sclarke03]

Awesome detective work Scott! I think it's pretty cool that they were all done by hand.

[Scotty]

Awesome info. What about the Grey suited monkey with the brown head?

There's a picture on videguy's spreadsheet, but nobody seems to know what it is.

Keahi, funny you should mention the gray suit monkey. I was going completely nuts over trying to find him. I PM'd quite a few people trying to find him. Thanks to Reverend and some more detective work, I can say with complete certainty (okay 99.99%) that there is no gray suited Monkey Assassin. It turns out that the picture John has on his spreadsheet is actually a blue suited monkey, the exposure of the picture is just way off. I found the original picture he is using and it is a bit easier to tell that the color is off. I know the gray suited monkey shows up on the check list, as well, but it's an error. I 'm in the process of putting together a bunch of new info I found out about editions sizes, etc., and going to pass it to Jacob so our checklist can be updated. I haven't gotten around to PMing John yet about the gray suited monkey.

[alittleweird]

Way to be a super sleuth, Scott! I love the dispertion of the blood spatter on that set! So fantastic!

[Squird]

I don't think you have the full story yet.

The original release: Color and Black & White - My BW is from the original release

Then there was the The Redux Release. Color and Black & White - My Color piece is from the Redux release. I think the paint on the Redux releases is glossier. My Original BW is flatter than the BW from....

.....The Hand Painted - Blood Splattered Release. - I have #13

[Scotty]

Don't know what to say about paint variations, but from the horse's mouth (Vinnie), there was no redux release of plain, unaltered Color and Monochrome Assassins. The redux monkeys were all made into the blood-spattered assassins.

[Reverend]

Stephe I think Scott is right on this one I have seen some of the leg work he has done, Great job Scott. Once aging you bring a tear to my eye, there might be love for Spastik after all.......even though this is actually MvsR stuff.

[Scotty]

Jacob, you know I do have love for the Spastik and the MvsR. Funniest thing about all this leg work is that based on there being no Gray Suit Monkey or Redux Monkeys, I was able to track down the pieces I was missing and should have been able to claim victory on completing the MvsR line. But during my research I found something I somehow missed--there's a flocked purple Space Monkey. Are you kidding me?! So, back on the hunt. Again.

Anyone have a flocked Purple Space Monkey to sell? Anyone know how many of these were made?

[alittleweird]

Dagnabbit! I thought for sure you had the flocked Space Monkey! I knew I should have told you about the one on ebay a week or so ago. Sorry Scott! I'll keep my eyes peeled.

[Scotty]

Dagnabbit! I thought for sure you had the flocked Space Monkey! I knew I should have told you about the one on ebay a week or so ago. Sorry Scott! I'll keep my eyes peeled.

Thanks Erika. It's okay, a week ago I didn't know I needed one. Pretty bad miss on my part since there's a picture in the checklist (though I couldn't easily tell it was flocked from the picture), but Carol Lynn posted some pictures and hers is clearly flocked. There's just too many pieces to keep track of

[HobieWanKenobi]

I too have heard from multiple sources that they grey suited monkey does not exist. I just thought that the next time you made contact with the man in charge, you could pass along the question.

Very impressed with your sleuthing and dedication to the cause.

[ShoMeNodder]

have one but not for sale...i'll keep an eye out too.

[Carol_Lynn]

I saw that eBay one also, it went pretty cheap. I was going to pick it up as an extra and completely forgot.

As for the mystery, I distinctly remember the redux monkeys being for sale. I didn't buy them because they were $40 each and seemed to be identical to the original. I also bought the blood spatter directly from wunderland war when they went on sale, and it wasn't the same time. I wouldn't be surprised if Vinnie was mistaken. I love him, he's seriously one of my heroes, but he's got a lot going on and things do slip by. I trust without a doubt that he told you that, but that may not guarantee it.

[Reverend]

So close but yet so far Scott, I sorry but you will find it. I know Bear contacted me about one to make sure it was the Flock Space Monkey because it showed the picture of the flocked but did not say it in the description. I told him to contact the seller to verify it, he may of picked this one up that was under the radar of most except for the one bear that is smarter than adverage Bear.

[Squird]

There was a 'Redux' release through Wunderland War. In quick succession (and probably out of order) were the Pop Monkey Assassin, the Shadow Monkey Assassin, the Redux, and then the Blood Splattered. This was a few years after the original release because I could never find the color or the mono. I bought the Mono on e-bay, and then the Redux release came out shortly thereafter.

Here's some snippets from 2007

http://toysrevil.blogspot.com/2007/04/w ... redux.html

http://omgposters.com/2007/04/21/mono-a ... ux-up-now/

http://forum.expressobeans.com/viewtopic.php?t=9630

http://expressobeans.com/public/detail.php/56131

This has a little drop down in the corner that shows Monochrome - 500. Then Monochrome 2nd - 96.

[Carol_Lynn]

Just looked at my eBay watch list and its still in the ended items, must have been the same one Bear was watching because it doesn't say flocked. I didn't even realize it didn't. The description does say limited to 96 so I'm guessing its the flocked one. I'll post a link when I'm on my comp, can't on my phone.

[Reverend]

Do ooh I'm sorry Bear, it been awhile I though it would if already been over. Please don't put up the link Carol Lynn

[Scotty]

Stephe, I hear ya. I already found all of those links and that's why I ended up emailing Vinnie cuz there was conflicting information. I found some new links and a lot of people were talking about the Redux release. My confusion starts with the quote from Vinnie from the link you posted (and I found the other night). Vinnie says that there is a re-release and they'll never be repressed again, and, he's going to blood spatter the re-release.

But, I have to admit, the mystery continues. There definitely was a re-release of Color and Monochrome Assassins in 2007. Loads of people were calling them Redux. Could they have been original Monkeys re-released? Who knows? I also found someone who said what you said about paint differences. Unfortunately, there are no dates on the monkeys themselves, but there is a trademark date on the insert.

Technically, if the monkeys were repressed, then additional inserts should have been re-printed and the current year (2007) should have been printed on it. Both of mine say 2004. Does anyone have an insert with 2007 on it. (of course, it could be argued that Vinnie might have had left over inserts...again, nothing is difinitive).

Interestingly enough, the people back in 2007 were just as confused. There were several threads with people confused as hell before the release saying that Vinnie's blog was completely confusing.

[Carol_Lynn]

Do ooh I'm sorry Bear, it been awhile I though it would if already been over. Please don't put up the link Carol Lynn

It is over, it's in my "ended items" list.

[Squird]

Stephe, I hear ya. I already found all of those links and that's why I ended up emailing Vinnie cuz there was conflicting information. I found some new links and a lot of people were talking about the Redux release. My confusion starts with the quote from Vinnie from the link you posted (and I found the other night). Vinnie says that there is a re-release and they'll never be repressed again, and, he's going to blood spatter the re-release.

But, I have to admit, the mystery continues. There definitely was a re-release of Color and Monochrome Assassins in 2007. Loads of people were calling them Redux. Could they have been original Monkeys re-released? Who knows? I also found someone who said what you said about paint differences. Unfortunately, there are no dates on the monkeys themselves, but there is a trademark date on the insert.

Technically, if the monkeys were repressed, then additional inserts should have been re-printed and the current year (2007) should have been printed on it. Both of mine say 2004. Does anyone have an insert with 2007 on it. (of course, it could be argued that Vinnie might have had left over inserts...again, nothing is difinitive).



Interestingly enough, the people back in 2007 were just as confused. There were several threads with people confused as hell before the release saying that Vinnie's blog was completely confusing.

I think Vinnie adds to it.

There was an original run. Then there were the POP and they were cast in different color plastic. Then there was the Shadow, which was gloss black. Vinnie made a big deal out of the Redux at the time, as it was a way for people to get their hands on one without spending a lot of money. Problem was, Vinnie didn't do anything so people could tell them apart. Folks thought there should be a sticker on them or something to say 'Redux' and what was to stop Vinnie from pressing more if the Redux sold out.

Also, original Monkeys and Monochromes were selling for about 35-50 bucks on ebay at the time. The Redux released at 20 a piece and people were concerned that flippers would try to pass the Redux as original.

In the midst of all this, Vinnie kept hinting at a special 'final' run of Monkeys that we'd all be super-psyched about. Then there were delay, then more hints, then he finally came posted the bit about the hand-splattered blood pieces.

I don't think there's much of a mystery to it, personally. But I was collecting at the time, so I'm not coming into 5 years after the fact. There's Color, BW, Pop, Shadow, Glow, Blood Splattered and somewhere out there a very hard to find proto (I guess). I do think there is a difference in the paint ap, with the Redux being glossier.

If you're looking to buy, don't buy the pair that's listed on ebay constantly for 99 bucks. That's a rip off.

[Reverend]

I don't think there's much of a mystery to it, personally. But I was collecting at the time, so I'm not coming into 5 years after the fact. There's Color, BW, Pop, Shadow, Glow, Blood Splattered and somewhere out there a very hard to find proto (I guess). I do think there is a difference in the paint ap, with the Redux being glossier.

Claim down Stephe on reason to get mad j/k, thanks for the info and your right neither I nor Scott were collectors back then. Thanks for another piece to the puzzle, like Carol Lynn said Vinny has a bunch on his plate and may be wrong. Not to mention after all those years of touring he may have partook once to many times but Carol Lynn is right he does have a bunch if side project in addition to his band. I can say I am one of the lucky ones to have a few of these Protos, hand painted and regular but I am still on the hunt for more so if you know where I can find any more your help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks again for you knowledge Stephe that what make this place great, people like you that know the history.

[videguy]

I fixed the spreadsheet, I seem to remember thinking a while back there was something screwy about the Grey Assassin. I thought(I could be wrong) the redux didn't have stickers and that was a way to distinguish them from the originals.

[Scotty]

...I thought(I could be wrong) the redux didn't have stickers and that was a way to distinguish them from the originals.

I read that once or twice, too, John, on other forums (2007 posts). I'd still like to see an insert with 2007 printed on it. It doesn't make sense for the Redux to have 2004 printed on the insert. Vinnie wasn't the manufacturer, Funko was. It's pretty standard for trademark (TM) dates to reflect the date of printing. And I can't see why Funko would have had extra inserts from the 2004 printing; or, even if they did, it wouldn't make sense for them to use them because they'd want a current TM year on it to claim their right to the trademark.

Well, it was fun trying to get to the bottom of it. Definitely harder when you're coming in as late as I am. Thanks Stephe for the insights. Wish I had been collecting back then; would have saved me a lot of money. I saw that monkey on ebay for $99; same guy has been listing it since around Sep/Oct 2012. Fortunately, I have all the monkeys, so I'm set.

For my next research project, I think I'll take on something easier, like where is Jimmy Hoffa buried or did Neil Armstrong really walk on the moon? I mean, many of us (okay, some of us) saw many an Apollo launch, but where did those rocket ships really go--space? Maybe they just flew around for a bit and landed in New Zealand. Peter Jackson got NZ to look like Middle Earth; how hard could it be for NASA engineers to get it to look like the moon. Right?

[Squird]

I'm not upset, Rev. It's just that we kind of went through this before. ***and I spent all weekend in a room watching my co-workers argue the SAME POINT OF VIEW. Sad and frustrating. They agreed, but couldn't pass on the opportunity to yell at one another. F@cking waste of my time.***


Distinguishing the Redux from the Original was an issue when they were released, too. People were concerned with the values of the Originals and concerned that there could be a 'Redux Redux' down the line, or whenever Vinnie decided he needed to move a hundred more monkeys. That's why we got that ridiculous post about a 'final press', which made things more confusing, if you ask me. I think you have to look at the quality of the paint apps to tell them apart. I wouldn't put much faith in the inserts or the TM dates on those.

Good luck sorting it out, Scotty.

Yeah, Mr. 99 bucks has had them out there FOREVER. Original or Redux, they're not worth more than 25-35.

[Kitzka]

I just wanted to say Scott way to go! Awesome detective work!

Lara

[mindblowin02]

Stephe right, I bought the Redux set when it came out from Wunderland war, I had to sell it a long time ago when money got tight. I bought the blood splattered set, so I figured I would rather keep them.

I believe the the packaging was slightly different, specifically the sticker on the front of the tube.

I wish I still had the set though, but I need the shadow assassin and the glow assassin first.

[David]

I have the original monochrome and coloured suited monkey assassins which were part of the 500 released in 2004. Also released was a glow in the dark assassin and I think there were 46 of these. Later on the blood splattered versions were released followed by the redux versions which are very similar to the original 500 but are glossier with the paint-particularly noticeable on the hands. On top of these there was the shadow assassin and the 4 pop art versions. All are great figures, such a wonderful design!

[Scotty]

That Terminator Monkey is AMAZING!!

[Enik]

I agree
seriously love that Terminator too
Bob has mad skillz

[unoudid]

Time to bring up an older thread. I'm starting to think I have a full set with proof that there was a 2007 Redux Set and a 2007 Blood Splatter Set. See if this makes any sense with the photos.

Exhibit-A:
- The Monkey on the Left includes a MvsR Sticker. The Monkey on the Right is missing the sticker.


Exhibit-B:
- Notice the insert on the Left is missing "www.funko.com" while the right insert includes that phrase.


Exhibit-C:
- The Monkey on the Left has a noticeably more Matte finish then the Glossy Monkey on the right. The Monkey on the right also has a slightly darker shade of blue on his suit.



Exhibit-D:
- The Monkey on the Left has a noticeably more Matte finish then the Glossy Monkey on the right. The Monkey on the right also has a slightly darker shade of blue on his suit.


Exhibit-E:
- A side by side comparison between the OG Monkey (2004) on the Left, The Blood Splatter Monkey (2007) in the Center and the Redux (2007) Monkey on the right.
- From what I can tell. The Blood Splatter and the Redux monkey have the same suit color and they are both noticeably more glossy then the original version.



Anyone care to chime in and tell me what they think?

[homietrav]

Interesting! Thanks for all the great info.

[Squird]

There was a color and bw set in 2004. And a color and bw released in 2007. There is also a blood splattered set in 2007/2008. The paint jobs are different with the latter set being much glossier. Add to it a multi-colored set, a glow and an all black and there's all of them.

[unoudid]

I'm pretty sure you are correct Stephe. I just wanted to add the visual

[Carol_Lynn]

So I guess this means I should hunt down the redux figures I think I might be okay with what I have.

[Squird]

Here they all are together.




MY BW is from the original release. The Color is from the Redux. The one in the middle was done by some hack customizer.